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what happen before big-bang?

what happen before big-bang?

Postby unitspacetheory » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:36 am

just new way to see how it happen:
http://unitspacetheory.blogspot.com/
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Re: what happen before big-bang?

Postby Amy DUBCOVA » Sat May 31, 2014 6:33 pm

What did you think/feel before you were born?
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Re: what happen before big-bang?

Postby Chevy106 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:44 pm

Non-local space with no form. (in my opinion.)
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Re: what happen before big-bang?

Postby Chevy106 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:57 pm

Correction, non-local with no form, 'uniformly' infinite.
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Re: what happen before big-bang?

Postby wlminex » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:00 pm

IN MY OPINION . . . CAUTION POSSIBLE PSEUDOSCIENCE AHEAD THAT CONFLICTS WITH THE STANDARD COSMOLOGICAL MODEL!!! . . . . .

Pre-BB was a a very high-energy (est. >10^120 ergs) static EQUILIBRIUM condition (likely subquantum, subplanckian in nature, BTW) that was disequilibrated by a disturbance (perhaps a statistical quantum fluctuation?) that began an energy-to-mass cascade. The result of this energy cascade (analogy: water flowing over a waterfall?) and m=E/c^2 (simplistic) via virtual particle pair production (particle-antiparticle, in which mean particle retention exceeded antiparticle retention) created mass. This process continues in a non-centralized, equipotential, net 'outward' expansion at the continuing expense of residual pre-BB energy (Note: Apparent expansion may be a 'false-positive' observation!).

There it is (IMO!) folks . . . . . Just my "opinion" with no evidence whatsoever other than what we currently observe of the universe. . . . Cheers! . . . . . have a go at rebuttals.
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Re: what happen before big-bang?

Postby Good Elf » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:31 am

Hi All,
@unitspacetheory; @Amy DUBCOVA; @Chevy106;@wilminex

I would also like to issue a qualification on what I am about to say. But I do propose a logical and experimentally verifiable process in which we might understand how things "came to be". Pseudoscience is based on non-science ... "science" without experimental verification... or "nonsense". There is no "absolute theory of everything" anywhere in the world so we must speculate. So there are just persuasive storytellers. I am going to try and become one of those, so please bear with me on this.

@wilminex: What you supply is a "good" technical answer, roughly the standard model except I would suggest "opinion" based on a limited amount of data is actually all that exists about that scale, it is more than OK to speculate. The problem as presented is "What happened before big-bang?" Now that is entirely speculation, and is a "long story", since there is no witness to these events in our Universe. Or is there?... and I am not suggesting the universal answer to every question here.

Amy DUBCOVA's answer is an interesting analogy regarding consciousness and where it comes from? What did you think/feel before you were born? Our answers should all be similar... we "feel" nothing and therefore we may believe this is because, for us, there was "nothingness". However our consciousness does not come from nothingness, we come from a being like ourselves, inheriting traits and "racial memory" from our "progenitor". "Your feelings" before you were born were those of your progenitor, because you were still a component part of that conscious entity. Here is where "belief" and "speculation" might come in to say that I believe in a "Holographic Universe", so the part is a reflection of the whole. Every cell in the human body, ever since it was just one single cell, is a "reflection" of that one first cell in our body except that it has become "modified" by it's place in the "whole". What you now apparently lack is a specific "memory". Science acknowledges but barely ever discusses the fact you do have an innate memory transferred by several processes, the progenitors specific mitochondria, your DNA which is composite from "prior" associations before your birth... and also an inherited collection of genetic "masks" we call "epigenetics", received from your immediate progenitors... all this can exhibit as a form of "memory", but not the kind of personal memory you are comfortable with as a "thinking individual". That is just too bad, this is what IS and not what we simply wish it to be as separate "egos".

You can take this "serial reproductive process" way way back, step after step, to a time just before life on earth and then you/I may well ask a question "Does first life come from nothing?" Then, if you have been following this line, the answer is no, there was prior existing matter, and there may be a chance that "dead" matter itself, that is a progenitor to all life, has the ability to be "conscious" through the transference of some kind of primordial memory, all by itself. It's not "life", but it would be a form of consciousness, life plays a tiny, yet "important" part, particularly for us, in our Universe and "life" needs matter so we can exist as "individuals". So maybe a prior existing state in "life" is not necessary for a primordial "consciousness". Our religions will not accept that this is true, it is unacceptable for "soul" to be inseparably entangled with the matter of the web of life. Even more so that "soul" does not require life to exist. We would "like" things to be different and our creation myths reflect this feature of mankind's centrality to the Universe and it's necessity for it to have a purpose. We just don't currently know, understand or give even a nodding acceptance of any process that is not "personal" and "empowering" to us as individuals. Within my own lifespan the tendency to attribute "mind" to other creatures" have been slow because of the just so stories told in the religious literature. A dog, a horse an ant does not have a "soul". However today through science we do not acknowledge "soul" but we acknowledge "mind" and we are seeing minds other than human minds all around us. A former generation would not accept this as true and even call this "heresy". I am comfortable with acknowledging other beings with which we share this world as having "minds" every bit like my own, specialized in ways to make them unique reflections of their place in the Universe, carrying with them racial memories and an expression if both their individual worth and their collective place in the order of things. Without them we would become a lesser species and I feel intensely for the loss we are causing through their accelerating extinctions we unthinking beings are bringing to them, imagining ourselves as central and isolated minds without any connection to this whole.

Returning to the main theme.Then you ask the next question, what was there before the first matter and we might say nothingness, but it is not nothingness because something happened before this "Big Bang" because that would be a progenitor event... perhaps another progenitor Universe before this one was "born", carrying with it the imprint of some kind of "information" from that progenitor Universe. There might have been consciousness there in our Universe's Progenitor, and we might be composed of the same stuff as our progenitor Universe. Many theories point to the "Black Hole" event being the initiating event of the "birth of a new Universe", while others say what goes down the "Black Hole" is utterly destroyed or "forgotten".

"Black Hole Theory" and the Holographic Universe Theory suggests nothing is ever "utterly" destroyed or "forgotten" as far as the information is concerned. Scientific evidence is mounting for the existence of a Holographic Universe, not just in the theoretical works in theory of Leo Susskind, Juan Maldacena and also Erik Verlinde but in several experimental results, most of which were discovered in the last year or so. If the Universe and all Universes are "Holographic", then "we" inherit that information of all former places way back to even before the beginning of our Universe, and maybe way beyond. In Physics this principle and this information is called quantum information, and it is "apparently" stored in the boundary events in our Universe and is never lost or destroyed... just endlessly enfolded. The enigma is individual information is lost to our body when we die because of decomposition into it's elemental parts and that information was to be found in the three dimensional space our body had originally displaced. So where has that information gone? On the other hand quantum theory and this quantum information is stored in the surface of an enclosed two dimensional spherical surface along with it's history such that the body and it's former history and all it's information is retained in that form eternally on this idealized boundary. Perhaps the size of the enclosing "sphere" has to be increased incrementally from time to time to continue the process of information storage since the Beckenstein Bound's two dimensional extent depends entirely on it's information content and this quantity is always increasing as the Universe "learns" more and more. Ultimately... all the information of the Universe is contained in it's primordial event horizon where all events are stored, that would be it's ultimate fate. Read about this in the Beckenstein Bound. This principle is a practical aspect of our Universe and recent experiments have shown superfluid helium, a computable volumetric system, does indeed retain the memory of all internal configurations of present and past states in it's bounding horizon. For our world this and many other similar holographic principles appear to provide some hints as to the current future and past states of our Universe and perhaps to many others that lie beyond. See: A Bizarre Physics Law Is Making Superfluid Helium Behave Like an Actual Black Hole - "It points to a deeper understanding of reality." - Science Alert 22 March 2017

For the really curious, you may be wondering about the enigma of time. You might want to know what was the "first" event independent of all "subsequently spawned" universes. A holographic interpretation would suggest that time is an independent parameter. Before and after in quantum events retain a connection only for causally connected beings such as ourselves. For us... time has a beginning and an end. For quantum phenomena time is a stepwise phenomena when it relates to quantum states. Between steps, time is held in abeyance. It is termed to be in a superposition of all possible states. For Monopoly Players it is a "Get out of Jail Free" Card.

How a Holographic Universe Emerged From Fight With Stephen Hawking - Wired -08-01-11

Image
The proponents of string theory seem to think they can provide a more elegant description of the Universe by adding additional dimensions. But some other theoreticians think they've found a way to view the Universe as having one less dimension. The work sprung out of a long argument with Stephen Hawking about the nature of black holes, which was eventually solved by the realization that the event horizon could act as a hologram, preserving information about the material that's gotten sucked inside. The same sort of math, it turns out, can actually describe any point in the Universe, meaning that the entire content Universe can be viewed as a giant hologram, one that resides on the surface of whatever two-dimensional shape will enclose it. When it comes to the basic idea - the Universe can be described using a hologram .

So this "Block Universe" has a few twists and turns yet, and as seen above and evidence is mounting for a Universe in "lower dimensions". Experiments at high energy at Stanford shows all states are in evolution at the one time. See: Press Release Archive: 'Schroedinger's Cat' Molecules Give Rise to Exquisitely Detailed Movies - SLAC - 21 Sept 2016 At the most basic level there is no before and after in quantum events... there is for "us" because we are "causal machines", needing time and memory to analyze data step-wise as can be attempted in problems presented to a digital computer... but that process is not necessarily for the Universe. I as the "storyteller" and many others as scientists would propose the Universe is a "quantum simulation", this is the underlying mechanism, and it solves things in parallel not serially as we tend to do. Which parallel path is taken is a separate path, as in a quantum 'which path' analysis, so we as individuals take our separate paths "alone", to a lesser or greater extent. Your fate and the fate of your friends are separate and relate to that place you have in the universal hologram that I mentioned previously above. The idea that there is just one outcome to all events is just not true. And the idea that the past is past and is followed by the future is an "artifact" of human causal information processing. See: Quantum trick sees two things happen before and after each other - New Scientist - 19 Aug 2016

The story starts off "pretty thin" but eventually I put in the experimental and technical data as references you can look up at your leisure. Please criticize as you see fit. Back to you people now.
Last edited by Good Elf on Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: what happen before big-bang?

Postby wlminex » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:51 am

Good Elf: With as few words as necessary . . . what is the source of this "quantum simulation"? WIkipedia Excerpt: "Simulation is the imitation of the operation of a real-world process or system over time"
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Re: what happen before big-bang?

Postby Good Elf » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:59 am

wlminex wrote:Good Elf: With as few words as necessary . . . what is the source of this "quantum simulation"?
The Universe would be a multiphasic quantum system. Each quantum phase is embedded in this Universe and encapsulates other quantum states at lesser and greater scales. The Universe started as a "superfluid" and in most respects retains these characteristics today, except our Universe in many places is a lot colder, while in other places a bit hotter causing a differentiation of these "phases". A "simulator" is all we have to deal with or a way to 'calculate". The reality is this perception of the simulator.
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